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Biography

An Iowa native, William Perkins grew up in Waterloo. He attended college then became a pastor, husband and father. He balanced working full time at John Deere with his duties as a pastor in a church 110 miles away. He commuted to Fort Dodge, often twice a week, for twenty-four years. He raised a family earning a Parent of the Year Award in Waterloo and started what might be the first black woman’s softball team in Iowa, taking them to the national championship level. He finds joy in the small accomplishments as well as the large by both himself and others. As pastor of Bethel AME in Cedar Rapids, he finds the time and resources to help as many people as they can showing Christ’s love rather than being satisfied with merely speaking of it.

Transcript

Date of Interview: 17 July 2009

James Hall: Good Afternoon, it’s July 17, 2009 and I am here interviewing today, Pastor William Perkins of Bethel AME Church. OK. Let’s get started. Where were you born?

William Perkins: I was born in Waterloo, Iowa.

James: Where do call home now?

William Perkins: Waterloo is still home. Waterloo and Cedar Rapids. I spend time in both places being that I am retired now.

James: From like elementary through college what were you schools?

William Perkins: Elementary school, I went to Riverview School in Waterloo. From there I went to Lowell. It was kind of like a middle school from up to sixth grade. And in junior high I went to Sloan Wallace on the west side of Waterloo, and then we moved to the east side of Waterloo and then I went to Logan Junior High School. From there I went to East High….Waterloo East and graduated from there in 1960. I went to college in Lincoln University in Jefferson City, Missouri.

James: As you were growing up, like, what did you do for entertainment?

William Perkins: We played a lot of sand lot softball, you know, baseball; we made slingshots, shot bottles, you know. We didn’t have a lot to do. But that’s the kind of thing we did. We also rode bikes and I had a paper route. And that was a part of my growing up and so I did that.

James: How has the Civil Rights Movement affected you?

William Perkins: It has made things better. There are some things in the past that were kind of negative. But it seems like it has made things better. More accepted now, it seems like than in the past.

James: How was segregation like for you growing up? What were your experiences?

William Perkins: When I was younger we lived in certain part of town, but there were other Caucasians that lived there, too. However, it was a poor section, in Waterloo. It was down by the river. Every year it flooded. And like I say people with money they had the opportunity to move out. But we were kind of isolated there. I didn’t know about other blacks in Waterloo, until my mother died and we moved on the east side of Waterloo. I didn’t know a lot about it at that time as far as segregated housing or anything like that, so I can’t speak well to that. We lived where we lived and I don’t think we had the money to buy one of the more expensive homes at that time anyway, so we were kind of content to live there.

James: So you didn’t have, like, any types of incidents with segregation when you were younger or growing up?

William Perkins: Yes I did, James. Basically it was more or less kind of like racism. When I worked at John Deere I was terminated, for no reason. I couldn’t really see the reason. They were cutting back in their employment. The day came for termination. At that time they gave people the opportunity to sign up for severance pay or to keep on working and then take your chances. They had a way where they were reducing people and the reduction that they made did not make sense. I was out of the company; I was terminated for about a week. The reason I say it didn’t make sense is because some of the guys were still working who I trained. And they were still in there and it was unfair. The HR guy there had a reputation for being kind of racist, even though they wouldn’t come out and say that. That was one of the worst experiences that I had. I had a family; I had nine and a half years in at John Deere and then all of a sudden in May, I was terminated. And it takes ten years to get vested, where you are able to get pension. So it just so coincidentally happened at nine and a half years I was terminated. So I had to go back and talk to the manager who I thought was fair, to let him know the injustice that went on. And so, I thank God today, for his willingness to really look at the situation and make things right. So I was out a week, I was reinstated; I had the opportunity to bump people with less seniority than me. It made things right. I was able to work from then until retirement in November of 2007. So I ended up getting 32 years in at that place. That was my worst experience with racism. That was the worst.

James: Like could you describe the role of your African American Church in your community?

William Perkins: Yes. We try to build people. We believe in God and that’s what the church is all about. It is a body of believers who come together for worship and praise and thanksgiving and that sort of thing. But it goes farther, it goes beyond that. We try to build people into being the people that God would want. That God would be proud of. We try to build up our young people. There’s a lot going on with our young people and a lot of our young people are in trouble. We’re trying to keep out of the system; we’re trying to keep them out of jail. So we’re trying to build them up, to let them know that there is a higher power, there is somebody that can give us the strength and the courage to say no to some things that we should be saying no to and yes to some things that we’re saying yes to. So we try to build people, we try to build young people we try to build adults to like each other, to love each other. And to try to teach people that this is what it’s all about. And this is what Christ came for, that he cared for all people. And that’s a way we ought to be as a church. And so we try to instill that into our worship service, we try to instill that into our preaching and to our teaching, also into our every day walk of life. We try to teach that everybody is somebody and that God loves everybody. And that’s how we go about it.

James: How long have you been with Bethel AME Church? How
come you choose to go to that church? Was there something special about it?

William Perkins: OK. I was appointed there in October….the fact it was on October 31 was the first day I spent at Bethel. I was appointed there by a Bishop of the AME Church. I’m a member of the AME Church and the AME Connection. And when I accepted the call to preach, one of my vows was to go where I was sent. So I was kind of sent to Bethel. Prior to Bethel, I served at Coppin Chapel AME Church in Ft. Dodge for twenty-four years. We commuted 105, 110 miles each way. We commuted every Sunday. Then it came to the point where there was a need for somebody at Bethel. I told the elder that I wasn’t really out there canvassing for a bigger church or a better church, or anything like that, but I told him, if you need somebody there, you know, I’ll do my best if you want to place me there. So he appointed me there….the Bishop appointed me there at the annual conference. So I’m a part of the AME Church and I go wherever I’m sent.

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James: How were you able to balance out being a pastor and working at John Deere at the same time?
William Perkins: It was tough. The one thing I had going for me is that I don’t require a lot of sleep. But it seemed like one continuous day. I’d get up at 4:00 in the morning and I’d go to work. I’d be usually at work 5:30, quarter to six. I’d get off at 2:30, 3:00. I’d come home, I would study or I’d either make a trip. Like right now usually on Wednesdays…when I was still working, on Wednesday I would come down to Bethel for Bible Study on Wednesday. Get out of the Bible Study and have to go right back. Get out of the Bible Study at say, it was 6:00, 7:30, get back home it’s 8:30, 9:00 it’s time to go to bed. And then short night, 4:00 comes, after six hours; it’s time to get up. So at Bethel it just seemed like one long week, you know. I was always under the gun for time. I was always trying to meet a time schedule. It was very challenging to the physical body, plus I had to try to get time to study. And so it was challenging. The church at Coppin was not as demanding because; it was a small congregation and didn’t demand as much time. That’s part of the reason why I went because I was working I trying to take care of the family. And when they needed somebody at Coppin in Ft. Dodge, I was serving as like an assistant minister at Payne. That’s a big church in Waterloo. They needed somebody and because I was ordained they asked me if I would go, if I would go serve that church, so I agreed to. Most of the time we just drive down on weekends. We would serve the church on weekends, because the church didn’t demand much time. And then later on, we started having like Bible Study in the middle of the week. So I’d get off work and we’d hit the road. As soon as I got off at 3:00 we’d have to hit the road to get there by 6:00. So I’d go home and get my wife and we’d hit the road to get there by six. We’d have prayer service to 7:00, 7:30, 100 miles get back, now it’s 9:00, 9:30. 10:00 before we even get in bed. So it was more challenging at Bethel, because of the midweek and I had to do that really kind of every….week…it demanded more of my time, it demanded more weekends. Where at Coppin Chapel in Ft. Dodge sometime I could go down on Sunday morning and we’d have a sermon and that basically would be it. It was challenging, but we thank God that we were able to make it.

James: So how did traveling back and forth affect your children?

William Perkins: Many times they went, usually like on weekends, when we would go to Ft. Dodge, many times they would go. There were sometimes we would let them stay at home. They might have some other things that they were doing. So basically, they knew we were traveling and they really were some pretty good kids. The worse thing we had happen you know with my sons, is that they threw some eggs on the neighbor’s house. That’s the biggest problem we ever had with them. Like I say, they were good boys. We had no problem with, same with the girls. They knew when we were going and they just kind of took care of things. They kind of watched the house when they didn’t go, but sometimes they did go. It didn’t cause a real big problem, really. We made the time to support them anytime we could. And the church was really receptive to us supporting our kids. Just like when our son was playing ball. There were sometimes we had to be gone on a Sunday. But the church was really supportive and receptive to us being gone. They realized we probably needed to be there to support them. We don’t have any regrets there. So we just thank God for that.

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James: Are you involved with the NAACP or any other organizations that have to deal with Civil Rights?

William Perkins: You know I’m basically kind of a supporter, basically support the NAACP. I’m not a member right now and I probably should be, but I do support the NAACP.

James: What would you say your biggest accomplishments would be? Like, so far in your life?

William Perkins: That’s kind of a wide open question there. There are so many things….so many positives. I think that in each of my steps, in each of my…maybe different parts of my life there’s been some different things…I’m just going to share maybe some of them with you if that’s ok. When I was in grade school one of the things in the classroom I really felt that I was just as good as anybody else, I thought I was just as smart as anybody else. And I tried to do my best as far as getting good grades. To me that was important to get good grades, to be smart to try to learn the math and the English and all that sort of thing. In elementary school there was like a penmanship contest and for a guy to be able to write neat, you know, that was kind of unheard of. But, one of my writings, one of my essays or whatever was selected as the best penmanship in the class. As I got a little older like in fifth grade, as far as sports go, I was gifted enough to compete with the sixth graders. And I felt good about that. Got to high school and was basically in sports, and also in the classroom. In sports I played basketball and I was the first team all stater in 1960. We were runner up in the state at the state championship. And like I say I was selected first team all-state that year. After high school, I guess I should say that also in high school I was also selected for some scholarships because of my grade-point.

James: Like what were your scholarship offers?

William Perkins: They were from a couple of organizations in Waterloo. And also I was accepted; I got a full ride to Lincoln University on a basketball scholarship. After high school, I got married in 1961, we had four children. As fate would have it my oldest daughter became pregnant… she had a baby and I was thirty-five years old. And this was kind of a blow. But God lead me to continue to love her, continue to support her, continue to let her know that hey we still love you and there’s no harm done. And that year in 1979, I was selected as Parent of the Year in Waterloo. By KBBG parade…not parade, but KBBG Staff. They selected Parent of the Year Award. My daughter wrote an essay and that was acceptable. I also played a little basketball, even after college I played a little basketball. I was able to play at fifty and forty-eight we won the championship in Waterloo [in the] Over-30 League and I was forty-eight and fifty years old. We won the championship that year. I felt pretty good about that. I also coached women’s softball. I feel good about starting a black women’s team in Waterloo. The first black women’s team might have been in the state of Iowa. I’m not for sure. I haven’t dug into it. Didn’t make any difference. But it was the first black women’s team in Waterloo…it was a softball team. We did pretty good and we also went to national tournament down in Shreveport. That was an accomplishment. Everyone doesn’t get a chance to do that, so I felt pretty good about that. I feel real good about some people who say if it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t be doing this, that, or the other thing. There was a young Caucasian softball player said, “Bill you know, if it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t be playing softball.” Because my involvement with coaching and leading her and working with her. So from a coach’s standpoint, I feel good. As far as the church goes, twenty-four years serving it Coppin Chapel in Ft. Dodge, certainly an accomplishment and I feel real good about it. There’re just so many things that have happened. It’s hard to just pinpoint one thing. There are just different things at different stages of my life that I really feel good about. Being at Bethel there are some things that have happened there, since we’ve been there, that is just over whelming. So those are some things that kind of jumped out.

James: What would you say your happiest memories and your saddest memories are?

William Perkins: Ok. Well my saddest memory, I think, is probably when my mother died. I was twelve years old. That was the saddest. Unexpected. I was playing with some of my friends and somebody came and got me. In a matter of fact we were playing in a hay loft. Somebody came and got me, said, “Your mother’s real sick.” She didn’t make it through the day. That was probably the saddest. Of course, death with some of my other relatives. My father died when I was twenty-nine. Then my brother died in ’95. Younger brother, brother next to me died in 2002. So those were kind of some sad memories. The saddest probably being my mother when I was twelve. I didn’t know how I was going to make it. I just have so many happy memories. I don’t know how I could really pinpoint the happiest moment. I think it’s just something that’s just ongoing and being able to help people. God has blessed me the extent that I am able to help people. Some people who are just getting started. Like some women who just get out of the shelter. Because of whatever reason, whether they had some problems with drugs or whether they had a bad relationship and they ended up losing everything going to the shelter, then they get out and they put them into an apartment; they have nothing. We try to reach out and help them. We just believe in people, we believe in loving people. We believe in more than just talking about Christ and what he will do. We believe in hands on, we believe in trying to help people. That we’ve done. Whether it be beds, whether it be refrigerators or stoves or washers or dryers or clothing, it makes no difference. If there’s a need there, we try to help them. It makes no difference whether they are members of Bethel or not. They don’t have to be. They’re some of God’s people. And for that reason we try to help them. I tell people when I help them that I don’t know if you have a church home or not but if you don’t you’re very welcome at Bethel. I’m not helping you because I want you to come there. If you want to come there that’s fine. But I don’t want you to feel obligated. I’m helping you because God loves you and I love you, too. And I just want to help you. The happiest moment I guess is just continuous because we’ve been doing this for years and we just enjoy doing it. It’s very rewarding. So to pick out one thing, it’s just like I said it’s just so many things that I feel good about. It is hard to select one, really one thing, it really is.
My wife and I have celebrated forty-seven years, we’ll have forty-eight years of marriage in and that’s kind of a feat. And everything is OK. August 28th we will have forty-eight years of marriage in. I guess that’s about it.

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James: If there is anything that has happened in your life that you could change, what would that be?

William Perkins: I probably would have gone on and finished college. I didn’t finish college. I probably would have gone on and finished college. Life has been good to me. God has really blessed me. I feel my background and my willingness to learn and to study has really helped me a lot. I came along at a time when sometime just a high school education would get you by. It probably wouldn’t right now. But, I probably would have gone on and finished college.

James: Twenty years down the road what would you want people to remember about Pastor William Perkins?

William Perkins: I remember the words of Dr. Martin Luther King and I feel the same way. I don’t care how many awards, how many prizes or anything like that, how many medals, just that I tried to help somebody.

James: What would be the best ending to your story, personally?

William Perkins: That I just believe in people, I love people, regardless of their walk in life. And I just want to help them to be better.

James: Is there any questions or any stories that I didn’t get to that you want to share with us?

William Perkins: You know there are some stoires. Yeah, and a lot of times this may be about somebody else and I don’t know if you want to hear this or not. But, my youngest daughter…my oldest daughter was born in ‘65…1965, no 1962. I’m sorry. Oldest daughter was born in 1962; next daughter was born in 1963. Two years later my oldest son was born in 1965. His birthday and our youngest daughter’s birthday is the same day two years apart. July twelfth. Then our youngest son was born. He was born in ’67. That’s kind of unique. I like golf. I enjoy playing golf; that’s one of my hobbies. I’m just getting over leg surgery right now and I haven’t played yet this year but I’m kind of anxious. That’s one of my hobbies. One thing as far as growing up, we used to caddy. Like I say, we were poor and we used to caddy at the country club. We didn’t have the opportunity to play golf just maybe like once a week. Didn’t have clubs, but if somebody had clubs they could go out and play. Once a week they would allow caddies to play. I remember getting fired. I remember getting fired from Sunny Side Country Club in Waterloo, because I would not go in a pond and get a man’s club. I think that was kind of racist. I think I was looked down upon as being inferior and it didn’t make any difference. And the man got mad because he had a bad shot, threw his club in the pond, and I wouldn’t go get it. I ended up getting fired from that job. Playing golf I play left handed. I play softball left handed. I swing from this side, OK? But when we started playing golf there were no left handed clubs, so I had to switch over to the other way. Most of my other strength is in my right hand. I write right-handed, I shoot right-handed you know, I bowl right handed, everything else. That’s where most of my strength is. So I guess I’m just kind of awkward; messed up. ’Cause I feel more comfortable swinging a bat like this. But to swing a golf club like this now at this stage of the game, I feel awkward; I don’t feel I can do it. I switched over and started hitting this side. This side, and have been playing pretty good. One accomplishment. In 19,….I’m not for sure exactly what year it was, but I shot a one under par seventy-one in a golf tournament. I was three under par thirty-three on the front side. The more strokes you can get under par the better off you are. I don’t know it you know anything about golf or not, but I won my flight by fourteen strokes. I felt pretty good about that.

Other stories, as far as our kids go. One son, our youngest son played ball, he played high school ball, junior college, junior ball. Most of our kids were involved in sports; we come from an athletic family. Oldest brother played with the Dallas Cowboys, he’s on their ring of honor, in Dallas. We went all over to watch him play. We went to Cleveland, we went to Chicago, we went to St. Louis, we went to Dallas, we went just all over, went to Minnesota, all over watching him.

James: Did he win any Super Bowls with them?

William Perkins: No, they didn’t have the Super Bowl; they just had championships. He was in the championship against Green Bay in 1966 and 1967. The ’67 year was the “Ice Bowl.” I don’t know if you remember that or have seen it sometime? We could’ve gotten tickets for that, but it was just too cold so we watched it on TV. We were there in ’66 when they played Green Bay down in Dallas. We rode the bus with the team. We shook Tom Landry’s hand. We were right there on the bus. We rode the bus with the team. That was one of those highlights! But we went all over watching our brother play. We just thought that was a great thing being from the little town of Waterloo, and to make it big time. And if that wasn’t enough, then our youngest son comes along, who gets beat up by our daughters up until he’s about eleven years old, eleven, twelve years old, because he was a skinny runt. But then he started growing, he started getting big. Sophomore year he started getting big. Junior year he was weighting 220. His senior year, they couldn’t stop him. He went to junior college; they couldn’t stop him. He was like a man among boys. He was a running back. He was 6’2”. He weighed about 225 or 230 and he had four three speed! [Editor’s note: He did the 40 yard dash in 4.3 seconds.] He was tough! One game, and we went all over to watch him, too, I know one game he had like 140 yards and that’s a good game in anybody’s books, a running back. The next game, he had 225 yards, that’s getting out of sight. Certainly, we thought, that was the best he could do. He played in Hutchinson, Kansas and he amassed 392 yards on fifty-four carries. And when he called home and told us what happened, the first thing I asked him was, “Are you OK?” He must’ve taken 200 hits. It took three or four guys to bring him down, so each time he carried the ball he was getting hit. Not once, but two or three times, maybe four times. These kind of stories they just, you always remember them. You always remember them.

William Perkins: Basically we didn’t really travel with them, but we went to where they were playing. Now, like I said, when we sent to see my brother in the different cities, we didn’t really notice any real problems, but from his standpoint, there were. There were some things that happened because he was black and they had other black members on the team. Society was not ready to accept them. And some of the hotels, they weren’t ready to accept them so they had to get different hotels. Now when our son came along, he graduated from high school in ’86, from college 1990, we didn’t really notice any problems. I think they stayed about anywhere they wanted to stay. And he didn’t really say anything about any problems there, as far as having to stay in another hotel. They all stayed together. So there was really no problem.

James: Well, thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to do this interview with me. I appreciate it.

William Perkins: That is quite all right. Thank you so much.

James: Thank you.